Whether working behind the scenes in Control, in a support or administrative role, or on the frontline, our fire services community is made up of an incredible amount of selfless people in a huge range of roles.
In this episode, we take a look at some of those varied roles, and how our support stretches further than people may think.
Listen to the episode:
We hear from Jonathan Honeyman, who’s an experienced dog handler and fire investigation officer. He shares the incredible journeys of two of his fire investigation dogs – including how one of them went on to receive a commendation for his help following a devastating incident.
We also caught up with Louise Dalton-Kennedy. She’s a Community Safety Advocate with Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, as well as being one of our Station Reps.
Louise talks about what a typical day looks like for her, and shares how our support played an important role in her recovery after two injuries.
And we were also joined by Fire Fighters Charity’s Fire Chaplain, Jacquetta Gomes. Jacquetta supports service users at Jubilee House, our centre in Cumbria, and shares what it’s like to see, first-hand, the difference our support can make.
Do you work in the UK’s fire services community? Are you aware that you may be eligible for our support too? You can find out more about the support we offer below.
Please remember, our Support Line is always available: 0800 3898820. Be sure to follow or subscribe to the Shout!Podcast to stay updated with our latest episodes.
Read the full transcript:
Please note: This transcript has been AI-generated so there may be some errors.
Rebecca: Hi everyone and thanks so much for joining us for the first Shout podcast episode of 2026. It’s a really exciting one to kick things off as we’re exploring some of the amazing roles we support across the fire services community, including a few you might not hear about very often. First up, I’m chatting with Jonathan Honeyman, who’s an experienced dog handler and fire investigations officer. He shares the incredible journeys of two of his fire investigation dogs, including how one of them went on to receive a commendation for his help following an incident.
Rebecca: Thank you so much, Jonathan, for chatting to me. I’m really excited to hear more about your role, in the fire service. Can you just tell me a little bit about it to start us off?
Jonathan: Yeah, certainly. Thank you very much for the invite. Started off fire service career and on call capacity. Saw the opportunity of what was within the fire service from various angles, then reapplied to do Wholetime role, did that. I was stationed in the central Scotland area for a number of years, then transferred through to NTC at Cambuslang as an instructor, which gave me the opportunity to specialise a wee bit more in breathing apparatus, fire behaviour and new recruits. And that opened up more, again, more experience within the fire service. And then ultimately my main goal for joining Wholetime was fire investigation. I had a drive from that, from very early on that was my interest in the fire service was fire investigation and behind that was to introduce fire investigations search dogs to the service. Because currently, at that point we didn’t have fire investigation search dogs in Scotland and that was the main drive.
Rebecca: I’m really interested in what’s involved in a dog getting trained up to become an investigations dog.
Jonathan: What’s involved is it’s pretty much the same as an explosives dog. It’s the same criteria but a different scent. So there is a lot of training involved in it. There are standards that are set around from that. Some of it ties back to the Centre for Protection of National Infrastructure and we’ve also got a very good working group in the uk, the association of Fire Investigation Search Dog Handlers where we all work together. Again, it’s back to that fire service family. We’ve got other people we can bounce things off of, experiences and support. So it’s quite far reaching. Training is to be fun for the dog. It’s put out as a toy, we throw out a toy for the dog, the dog retrieves it, then you start introducing a scent. Shows that he links the scent on the dog’s nose on the article, he picks that Scent up, finds the toy like that, and then you start hiding the toy so he’s purely using his nose. And then the next thing you teach him is not to interact with the toy, because in a fire scene, you don’t want any of that, interaction. It’s to be, tell us what’s there and then we stop.
Rebecca: Gosh, that must be difficult. Actually, I think it’s in them to want to immediately pick the toy up. So that must be quite a difficult part.
Jonathan: Yeah, I mean, it’s. The attributes are absolutely there and the drive’s absolutely there. If you select the right type of dog for doing this and it’s that back to the handler and dog bond and relationship, and that’s critical. You’ve got to build that up at the start. And that’s the secret of it. Once using the right dog and then building up that bond and trust. Because it’s all right doing training, he can trust me and rely on me to help him, but when the chips are down and we’re, at a fire scene investigating it, I am relying on him. And you’ve got to get that trust right.
Rebecca: The trust is yeah. What breed of dog and how old is your dog? What was your dog at this point?
Jonathan: The first dog was a collie cross and he was a SS PCA dog. He was being mistreated and being starved, basically. And we took him from there, did the training and got him going. Flint was his name. Very first fire investigation search dog in Scotland for the fire service. And he actually got commendation from Police Scotland for very serious case that helped bring to a conclusion that otherwise we wouldn’t have got to.
Rebecca: Wow, that’s amazing. What a turnaround after such an awful start.
Jonathan: Yeah the second dog, which is now a working dog called Phoenix. He’s a Sprocker, which is a cross between a springer, and a cocker spaniel. And again, he was from sspca, from puppy farming. And so his reaches, it’s growing as well, has proven to be really beneficial within fire investigation, supporting us in our job and getting evidence that would otherwise have been missed or misinterpreted. We also do a lot of work in the community. both dogs, have done and will continue to do so, supporting vulnerable kids that are, at risk, delivering the fire safety message. So it helps break down barriers, create a link, create a memorable point and provide support out there in the community.
Rebecca: It’s probably every case and every investigation will be so different, but is there a couple of examples you could Just give of, you know, how that worked, you know, when did you give them the scent, what did they find, and how were they able to help?
Jonathan: I’ll cover the one that Flint got the commendation for from Police Scotland. It was a very unpleasant scene. unfortunately there was fatalities involved in that. There was a high suspicion that it was deliberate. Basically the fire investigation took place and it was a case of, you know, there’s other evidence that we could get here, there is a protocol and a deployment document says when we should be using the fire investigation search dog that hit all of these criteria and there was more information that we could be gleaned from the scene. So dog was called in. We searched basically round about the perimeter. It was a domestic building sets the guard in the garage roundabout and we found items within the garage that were of interest to us and we made indications in that or the dog gave a response within the house as well, where the casualties were found and that aligned with everything else, all the other information that we had. What was different was we also got indications away from that fire seen on clothing. And it was found that the clothing that we had no interest in previously had been linked to the same ignitable liquid that was found in, at the area of origin. Which then raised the questions of, right, so how did this happen? How did that link come together? So the person on the clothing was spoken to by the police, and an alibi was given for that. And we used the search dog again to test the alibi and the alibi was basically a five mile run at the time of the fire. So what we did was that same area of the run, we used the search dog to search this 5 mile run to try and find further evidence or to test his alibi. And in so doing we were able to disprove beyond all doubt that this alibi was false. And then in the back of that, from the fire investigation information that we gained working with the fire investigation department and our external partners and from the information brought from the search dog and this new information that was brought to the scene that we previously didn’t have, we were able to prove the actual sequence of events that led to that fire. There was a, conviction secured on the back of that.
Rebecca: That was all because of Flint, essentially. That’s absolutely amazing.
Jonathan: Yeah, absolutely. I mean it’s. I don’t think people can realise the bond of the handler, working dog relationship. I mean, yeah, any pet has got a huge bond, but I found the step up from having a dog As a pet to a working dog, it really elevates up and you see it in the likes of the military people, especially, you know, search dogs that they’ve used for explosives in Afghanistan. When they come back, you know, if the handler’s been injured or died or vice versa, it does have a huge, huge impact on that unit, that wee family unit, which is the dog and the handler and their family immediately around them, which could be their work colleagues or it could be personal at home.
Rebecca: Obviously, you work alongside firefighters control, I’m sure all personnel. This episode in particular, we’re really trying to highlight how many roles across the fire service. Firstly, that there are, and secondly, that we’re able to support. Is that particularly important for you, do you think, knowing that the charity is there for you, and your colleagues right across the service?
Jonathan: Yeah, like I say, I think it’s important. It’s a across the board to all of us. I mean, don’t you think you realise early in a career, when you come in as a firefighter, the breadth of the service, the amount of functions, departments and roles within the service to make that job happen is critical. And every one of them has got to be working correctly for us to get the best outcome. And it’s that family. We’re all exposed to different things to achieve that outcome. but the bottom line is that event has an impact on all of us all the way along the line, to some degree, whether we recognise it at the time or not. What I’ve seen, and it’s not just a physical impact of the hard work and the job, but the mental health and well being side of it, we’ve all got a different trigger that may make that difficult or challenging for us and we may carry that wee bit of baggage with us for a while and we may revisit it, but we’re all affected in different ways and some of us may not be affected at all, but we’ve also seen another side where the slightest wee thing that doesn’t affect me may affect someone else and vice versa. And I think it’s that breadth and the different levels of exposure at different points. People are exposed to different critical points. It’s not just the guy or the girl that’s turned up to the unpleasant scene and the disaster that’s happened in somebody else’s day. There’s a whole load of other people that are not seen at that scene that have got a critical role in making that happen and they’re exposed to it in a different format. If I think of the Breadth of the reach, the fire service charity. It’s critical that it covers the breadth of, that as well. Because we cover the breadth of that incident.
Rebecca: Exactly. Yeah. That hits the nail on the head, I think. having and making sure that that wellbeing support is available, whatever st, whoever you are, certainly for us is really, really important. So, have you seen our support firsthand? Have you had us or have you got colleagues?
Jonathan: Yeah, I mean, I remember and again, I reflect back in the career. In hindsight, I think it’s a great thing. but I remember being in an incident and we came back and we had one person off the crew hours after the event, sitting in the locker room. we knew this wasn’t right, his state of mind and the way he was. It just wasn’t him. We knew that wasn’t right. We were all fine. It wasn’t a particularly bad incident, but it was that wee trigger. It just took it to a point for him. And that has, without a doubt, the impact and the support needs to be there. we must have that support there. We’ve got responsibility for all of us, for each other to look after them. And thankfully that all resolved. Resolved. Well, people moved on, career went well, life went back to normal for them. That brought it home to me of the point of view that it had reached a critical point where we’ve all got the re trigger at some point where it reaches that, kick point. And it’s fantastic to know that we don’t know when that’s going to come, but we need to be able to react to it and deal with it and not shut it away. And knowing that the support is there to deal with that, is comforting. It gives strength and it gives confidence and without a doubt, it builds resilience. What is better now? I think we’re more attuned to the fact of recognising the warning signs so that we can deal with these things personally, individually, as a watch, as a team, as an organisation, before we get to a critical point because that person’s now got better, well, being in their life.
Rebecca: It’s such a key first step, I think, having that awareness and recognising those signs, essentially. we’ve got obviously a huge amount of support available to people, online as well as face to face. there’s a lot of preventative resources available. Would you sort of encourage anyone listening to just go and cheque it out? We’ve obviously got a lot on our website and we’ve got our support line available.
Jonathan: I know that Fire Fighters charity has the HOPE programme. I mean, if you’re getting things you have concerns about or the things not in your daily life, that’s all going because life never goes smoothly. It’s life we’re all dealing with sometimes common issues. There’s a programme there and yes, if you’re feeling like that, you know, make yourself more resilient. Look at these things, consider them, don’t dismiss it.
Rebecca: Thank you, Jonathan. That’s incredibly powerful. As a final message to everyone. I really appreciate it.
Jonathan: Not at all. Thank you for your time.
Rebecca: You can find a link to our HOPE programme which Jonathan mentioned in the show notes.
Next, I caught up with Louise Dalton Kennedy. She’s a community safety advocate with Scottish Fire and Rescue Service as well as being one of our station reps. Louise talks about what a typical day looks like for her and shares how our support played an important role in her recovery after two separate injuries.
Rebecca: So, thank you, Louise, so much for joining me. you’ve got a really interesting role in the fire service. Can you just tell me a little bit about it, what it is that you do?
Louise: Well, I’m a community safety advocate for Glasgow area, so my job is, is to go into people’s houses and make sure, they’re nice and safe and go into the community to tackle all kinds of things. People think it’s only fire, but we go into schools for antisocial behaviour, we go into prisons, we talk to all different types of groups.
Rebecca: That’s amazing. And what kind of led you to get into that? Were you in the fire service previously or was this your first role there?
Louise: No, I’ve, been in the service 20 years in July. So I started in the. The Hamilton Canteen and then I moved over to an admin role and that was just, fsec. So it was plotting incidents where, all the guys had been out to, and then that department would run to see how fast the fire engines can get to these incidents. That’s why Parkhead get closed and new stations get built and stuff like that.
Rebecca: Wow, that’s really interesting.
Louise: Yeah. And then I moved over to the Centre data team and that was doing fire reports. So that’s when people requested fire reports for their business if they had had a fire. And also to data, quality cheque when the guys are putting it in after the incident and if they’ve not did it properly, we just give them some support to fill it out.
Rebecca: That’s amazing. I mean, that’s a huge breadth of, roles that a lot of people maybe won’t have even heard of. Or know that exist. That’s really, really helpful, actually. So my next question was going to be, have you always known about Fire Fighters Charity and the fact that you are eligible for our support?
Louise: It was probably when I come in at this role that I learned more about it, because I think it’s bigger in Glasgow than it was in Hamilton, because it was mostly support staff I worked with. So Wisney really publicised. But when I came into this job and when I had to reach out to them, I just learned more about it.
Rebecca: Do you think having been in that role and sort of with support colleagues that don’t know too much about us, is that quite important to you now, to kind of spread the word about the work that we do?
Louise: Yeah, because I think some support staff probably don’t know what the firefighters charity is there to support them. And it’s only for operational staff.
Rebecca: We do hear it a lot and it’s. It’s definitely a message. A big message for us actually, is to make sure. And that’s kind of the reason for this episode actually, is just to make sure people are aware. You know, if they’re working in the fire service, it could be that we could support them with a whole range of things. I’ll come back to, the support that we actually offered you in a minute. But can I just ask you in terms of your role now? It’s really interesting, the different places you go with that. You go into everything from schools to prisons. I mean, what would a typical day look like for you, if such a thing exists?
Louise: When we come in, it’s a different day every day. On a Monday, we could be just completely doing home fire safety visits. Sometimes it could be visits in the morning, going to groups in the afternoon. Another day could be working in to prisons and doing, a fire safety in the home presentation and then doing some practical work there. and then in the afternoon going to school and doing something completely different. So it’s different every single day. And I think that’s why I enjoy my job so much, because you are helping the community and it’s not the same every single day and you’re not tied to your desk all the time
Rebecca: And I know alongside that role you also to volunteer for our charity, don’t you? What is it that you kind of do with that?
Louise: Just when they’re having their fun days and their charity car washes and stuff like that, I just volunteer for that. If anybody needs support, I pass out the leaflets that I was given when I joined up, I make sure that the wellbeing board is updated with all the new information that’s been sent. Just when I see anybody struggling, I do mention the firefighter charity.
Rebecca: Yeah, that’s amazing. I think also potentially, if you’ve had support, it can mean so much to hear from you and your experience, I’m sure, for people who’ve never had us and don’t realise the support we offer, I mean, what was it that we were able to offer you? What led to you kind of getting in touch with this yourself?
Louise: Yeah, so I’ve been to Jubilee House twice and the first time is when I brought my wrist. It was just at the start of this role and I need my driving licence to do my job because we’re out and about all the time and when we were fitting smoke alarms, so I would need full action of my wrist. And my line manager said to me about the firefighters charity and I just applied for it and they phoned me up and went through loads of questions just to see how they can support me. And when I went down, it was amazing. I came back and I was telling everybody it, is quite intense, but it, needs to be to get the benefit from it.
Rebecca: And did you see that benefit? Did you come on in terms of your physio in that week? Yeah, yeah, amazing.
Louise: And then the second time is when I was in a car accident and I had. It was like whiplash. So they helped me with that, as well, just to give me exercises. And it was on the, app, so I could actually bring the app, home and continue doing it as well.
Rebecca: Were you able to meet people in different roles or different backgrounds while you were at Jubilee House?
Louise: Yeah, it was whole different. It was even people’s wife, daughter, of people serving in the fire station as well, support staff, firefighters, retained firefighters. It was loads of different people.
Rebecca: That’s what we like to hear. It can be a real mix. And I know I’ve spoken to people in the past that have. That have said that they’ve been quite surprised by how many roles that they met there. do you think following this and following your experience, it’s important for you just to make sure that you spread the word as far as you can, through all different roles, not just your own sort of support colleagues, but right across the service?
Louise: Yeah, absolutely. Everybody, if they are struggling, they should reach out to the firefighters charity because they do have loads of other stuff but could help them as well. It’s not just going to a centre. even just going on to their website gives you lots of information as well.
Rebecca: You can find out more about the support we offer people just like Louise via the link in the show notes.
And finally, I was delighted to be joined by Fire Fighters Charity’s fire chaplain, Jacquetta Gomes. Jacquetta supports service users at Jubilee House, our centre in Cumbria, and shares what it’s like to see firsthand the difference that our support can make.
Thank you so, so much for joining me today, Jacquetta. I really appreciate it. Can you just tell me a little bit about your background, first of all, and how you came to become our, fire chaplain at Fire Fighters Charity?
Jacquetta: Yes, thank you for inviting me. I’m very happy to be here. I first had contact, with the Fire Fighters Charity through my father, who joined the London Fire Brigade in the 1930s and the charity helped him at home before he died. I was already a fire chaplain for East Sussex Fire and rescue service from 2014. We actually launched the fire Charity Chaplaincy in Interfaith Week in 2015 because we felt as we were launching as an interfaith multi faith chaplaincy, it was very important that it was done at a time that was suitable for that.
Rebecca: just for anyone that’s listening who might not know too much about the role, what kind of things is it that you do, within the role as a fire chaplain?
Jacquetta: I mean, one thing I should explain that nowadays chaplaincy isn’t about religion. I’m a Theravada Buddhist, but I’m not there to propagate Buddhism or any religion. You’re there to offer spiritual support to people. Obviously there are people who are Buddhists, who come to Jubilee House and if they ask me questions about Buddhism, or one lady was interested in becoming a Buddhist. If somebody asks about that or they have issues with meditation, I’m very happy to help them. But anything to do with religion has to come from one of the beneficiaries asking. I’ve been asked to do blessings, to advise on literature, to read, things like that. But it always has to come after I’ve been asked to do that. It’s not something I can initiate.
Rebecca: No. That’s really interesting. It’s really good to know, actually, because it might be for some people that might feel like a barrier. So I think that’s a really good thing to make clear to people that are listening.
Jacquetta: I think the most important thing about chaplaincy is that it’s confidential that people know that they can speak to you in confidence. Obviously, there are certain things you’re legally obliged to report, but other than that, you’re essentially there to listen in confidence. So I think people feel they can trust you and can open up to you. I find it very rewarding that people have never met me before, you know, do have that trust in me. Because of the chaplain role, it must
Rebecca: put a lot of people’s minds at rest, I imagine, just having that awareness that it won’t go any further, essentially. It may be difficult to pinpoint any, in particular, but are there a couple of examples that might stick in your mind of, ah, times that people have approached you, and asked for, for a conversation with you?
Jacquetta: Essentially, the issues that people bring up, unless they’re specifically religious ones, broadly fall into two categories. They can be personal issues or they can be work issues. sometimes people want to talk about difficulties they’re having at work or, ways in which their workplace has changed that they don’t really feel are appropriate or don’t really understand. And there are those issues. There’s also people can have personal family issues or if about, something that they’re having difficulties with, say, alcohol finance. And one of the great things about the charity is I’m then able to direct people to, the appropriate people in the charity who can help them.
Rebecca: Absolutely. I think it all sort of connects up, doesn’t it? And just from the time that you’ve spent, alongside the charity, you probably do know, how closely everyone does work together. And you, for you yourself and for your colleagues who are fire chaplains right across the uk. were you always aware that you were eligible for our support? And do you think there maybe are a few people that aren’t aware that they can actually, access our support themselves?
Jacquetta: Yes. I mean, one thing I have noticed at Jubilee House, when I go there, there were always some people there from some fire services and they know really well about it. Whereas I’ve met people who are older than me who say, I didn’t really know that much about it. There clearly is a difference between, from fire services, how much they promote the charity. And I think it would be great if we can make sure that everybody in the fire family knows more and more, because it’s fantastic support. I mean, a lot of people comment to me, say, with the physiotherapy, that it’s wonderful because the physiotherapy is there, personally directed towards their needs and they find that really, really helpful. And, all the support they get, they feel is relevant to them personally, which is something I think really unique that the charity is offering to them.
Rebecca: Yeah, absolutely. Everyone’s sort of treated as an individual and we kind of look at their specific needs. Just out of interest, how big are we talking in terms of the network of fire chaplains? Are they literally across the whole of the uk,
Jacquetta: some fire services have fire chaplains and some don’t. when I became with Venerable Pietis, or Buddhist monk, we became the first provincial, fire chaplains in a multi faith chaplaincy at East Sussex in 2014, London Fire Brigade already had multi faith chaplaincy. some chaplaincies now, although they will obviously have local contacts and things like that may still only have Christian chaplains. The fire services aren’t legally obliged to have chaplains, but I certainly feel where they are, they’re a wonderful additional support source of support. I can remember somebody at East Sussex saying to me, you know, the more support there is, the better it is because everybody’s different, everybody wants something different. And, the more sources of support there are, the more likely it is that everyone can find something that works for them.
Rebecca: I think that’s so important actually, because it doesn’t matter who it is that they approach, if everyone’s connected and is able to then direct them on from there, that’s it can make such a difference.
And just actually out of interest as well, you sort of talked through the kind of situation you might see at ah, Jubilee House. Operating from Jubilee House. Will it be quite similar for fire chaplains working in fire services? Will it be still those conversations?
Jacquetta: It’s done slightly differently in the, in my personal opinion, the chaplaincy at Jubilee House is more like hospital chaplaincy in that there are some people who come back time and time again, particularly older people or people have long term issues. But with a lot of people, particularly younger people, you only see them once or twice, they’re passing through. Whereas in a fire service what you’re trying to develop is long term relationships with people. So it is operating in a slightly different way. Again, obviously it’s really important that confidentiality is there. I think all chaplains, this is the real key, you know, people knowing they can trust you and that what you’re saying is confidential. One other thing that fire services do that I’ve done at Jubilee House is Firefighters Memorial day, on the 4th of May, I have conductive commemoration services there for anyone who wishes to attend. Now these are not religious services at Jubilee House, they’re secular, but they do include religious texts and readings one year there was a man there who was a Roman Catholic and he wanted to read the prayer, the Saint Florian prayer. but they’re open to everyone, religious or not religious. Anyone is welcome to come and read, come and participate. And I also think personally this is an important aspect of chaplaincy that you can offer occasions like this. In some fire services. Chaplains have conducted weddings or, or christenings or other, services like that for members of the fire family.
Rebecca: Lovely to hear from you and to hear your experiences. Thank you so much. Thank you so much to Jonathan, Louise and Jacquetta for joining me and sharing more about their unique roles. Please remember, no matter what your role is in the fire and rescue service, our, ah, support is available. There are links to our website and, and further information on how you can get in touch in the show notes. And if you’ve got your own experience to share, you’ll also find details on how to reach us there too. Thank you so much again for listening and we’ll see you next time.